Things Musicians Don't Talk About
Music
About
Hattie Butterworth and Rebecca Toal host a podcast of insight and change in the classical music and arts professions. Delving into the often stigmatised worlds of mental health, injury, discrimination and productivity, classical music issues are spoken and revived. Join Hattie, Rebecca and guests for important conversations, inspiring moments of wisdom and poignant vulnerability. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Episodes
- 111. Jessica Duchen: activism, power and politics
We couldn't be more pleased to be releasing this interview with legendary journalist Jessica Duchen. Hosted in her beautiful home, we speak about her path into writing, how personal challenges have affected her outlook on life and journali…
- 110. The future of TMDTA
The podcast Things Musicians Don't Talk About will conclude in June after six years. In this episode, the hosts discuss the reasons for ending the show and look back at its history, expressing gratitude for the community's support.
- 109. Surviving ballet: Louise Bennett on change in the industry
Louise Bennett, former ballet dancer and Artistic Director, shares insights on the ballet industry, her time at the Royal Ballet School, and navigating injuries and career changes. The episode also explores potential lessons for musicians…
- 108. The Break Down: predicting, reflecting, replying.
In episode 108, hosts Hattie Butterworth and Rebecca Toal discuss their personal lives and reflect on the years 2016 and 2026. They also address a listener's email concerning feelings of being gaslit by a music college professor.
- 107. Thangam Debbonaire & Eleanor Turner: The Political Musician | Live at RSM
In this live episode from the Royal Society of Musicians, host Hattie and Rebecca are joined by Thangam Debbonaire and Eleanor Turner to discuss the political role of musicians. They explore the challenges musicians face when speaking out…
- 106. Lizzie Ball: Classical Music for Contemporary Society
Violinist Lizzie Ball discusses curating a classical music series at Ronnie Scott's, her background as an improvising violinist, and what classical musicians can learn from jazz. She also touches on coaching musicians with performance anxi…
- 105. Dr Anna Bull: class and classical music
Dr. Anna Bull is a Senior Lecturer in Education and Social Justice, Co-director of The 1752 Group and a former professional pianist and cellist. We return to Zoom to speak with her about class and socioeconomic issues in the classical musi…
- 104. The Break Down: Depression, donors and misogyny
Trigger Warning: suicidal ideation from 13:50 to 18:00 Is it ethical that musicians feels 'owned' or controlled by their donors? Today in The Break Down, we are discussing philanthropy in classical music and opera, Hattie's recent experien…
- 103. The Break Down: Saudi Arabia, Hopelessness & Activism
Welcome to our rebranded 'chatty episodes' - now, with middling irony and an exaggerated sense of self-awareness, called The Break Down. Hattie brings our Classical Strife newsletter segment to the podcast, we chat about The Met x Saudi Ar…
- 102. Ophelia Gordon: living though anorexia and divorce
Words hold huge power, and for a long time the word 'anorexia' felt dirty to pianist Ophelia Gordon. First experiencing its wrath while studying at the BRIT School and watching her parents' divorce unravel her life, anorexia would return t…
- 101. Jessica Curry: when things fall apart
'If it could have gone wrong it has gone wrong'. The last five years for Jessica Curry, a composer of contemporary classical game music, has been marked by severe illness and personal loss. She joins Hattie and Becca on Things Musicians Do…
- 100. We listened to our old episodes… and immediately regretted it
We have reached episode 100 and so decided, as a celebration, we'd take a wee look back... we might now regret it! Listen as we react to the first episode we made together, now over four years ago! Becca also tests Hattie on five years of…
- 99. Lauren McQuistin: eating disorders in classical music (live)
*Trigger warning: discussion of eating disorders, alcoholism, addiction* From our live event at the Royal Society of Musicians on 22nd May 2025 Lauren McQuistin has been running the Instagram account @brutalrecovery for years now. Her advo…
- 98. Performative workaholism, surviving criticism and intuitive eating
Hattie and Becca discuss the need for many creatives to prove themselves to others online, often sharing data about their work. Do we need a structure and numeric guide for practice or can it be intuitive? And how does this link to intuiti…
- 97. Jamie Barton: embodying pride
Mezzo-soprano Jamie Barton has been fighting the corner of the marginalised in classical music now for over 10 years. From a marriage breakdown to a queer awakening and struggles with learning repertoire, Jamie joins Hattie and Becca to di…
- 96. Back again, but different
Entering our YouTube era...! And we're talking about returning to things we didn't expect to: Hattie to America and Becca to the harp. We also have a good ol' think about child prodigies, faith and praying, and Becca obsesses further about…
- 95. Meditation for musicians: calming the inner critic
After a performance we term as 'bad', it can be difficult to return to a sense of confidence in our playing. In this fourth mediation, Ruth Philips leads a meditation to disarm the inner critic and restore a sense of peace and acceptance i…
- 94. Meditation for musicians: connecting with your audience
Our aim as musicians is to communicate generously and freely to our audience but we rarely turn towards ourselves with the same degree of care. In this meditation, Ruth Philips leads a loving kindness practice, exploring how it might be to…
- 93. Meditation for musicians: reconnecting with your instrument
This meditation aims to bring you closer to your instrument and aid in healing any sense of disconnect you may be feeling Discover Ruth Philips *Ruth Philips and Lucy Russell are running a course 'Mindfulness for Musicians' at Benslow Musi…
- 92. Meditation for musicians: pre-performance anxiety
A meditation for musicians lead by cellist and mindfulness meditation teacher Ruth Philips for use to calm the mind around stage fright and performance anxiety. Discover Ruth Philips --------------------------------------------------------…
- 91. I wasn’t as good at the cello as I thought I was
'On returning from America, I listened back to lots of my old recordings and discovered a paradox: I had no confidence but also thought I deserved more – thought I was better than I really was'. Hattie sits down to share reflections from h…
- 90. Lucy Humphris: embracing otherness
This week we interview trumpet player Lucy Humphris about her journey through music college and the contemporary music scene. We speak about the institutional barriers Lucy and others face as a female brass player with a non-traditional ca…
- 89. Rigid control, guilt and returning to exercise
Eating disorders and intense practice obsession have a lot in common. How do we move from an 'all or nothing' mindset to something structured and regular? Becca shares the start to her return to exercise following healing from an eating di…
- 88. Beyond the 'woman' conversation: Gillian Moore and CN Lester Live at RSM
There are statements made time and time again when you approach the topic of women in music: 'but historically music by men is just better', 'I'm sick of this wokeism in classical music' and 'people won't buy tickets to concerts of just wo…
- 87. Emily White on grief, teaching and the joy of letting go
10 years ago trombonist Emily White lost her husband after a prolonged period of illness. She was thrown into the worlds of death admin and loneliness, but out of it discovered a perspective on what was important as a musician. She shares…
- 86. Book Club: anti-psychiatry and doublings
Is capitalism to blame for the mental health crisis? Should we separate the art from the artist? Rebecca and Hattie have been reading non-fiction. And they are sharing two of the books with each other. Naomi Klein's Doppelganger won the Wo…
- 85. Mark Brierley on being seen, classical music marketing and the origins of RSM
Mark Brierley came to the world of classical music via journalism and without any prior knowledge of the industry. Now, as Head of Membership and Communications at the Royal Society of Musicians, he spends every day hearing from musicians…
- 84. Musical theatre and emotional regulation
It's Becca's turn to sit down for a solo check in with the help of some listener questions. The grief journey continues, as does the freelancing, and Becca reflects on emotional regulation, balancing her various jobs, and processing the de…
- 83. The ambition trap and entering into stagnation
Hattie sits down for a late night chat about everything on her mind this Christmas. New Year's resolutions, jealousy, musician guilt, ambition and the illusion of festivity are chaotically unpacked. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy f…
- 82. Linton Stephens on living authentically with a public platform
We asked Linton Stephens to come and speak about authenticity for our first live show at the Royal Society of Musicians. A musician and broadcaster who has been naturally unapologetic about his identity in all corners of his career, living…
- 81. Jalayne Mitchell: Classical Wellness
Back in February we talked with the legend, Jalayne Mitchell. It was such a special episode that we had to keep it brewing for many, many months. Jalayne has since taken a break from Classical Wellness but her message is still so vital and…
- 80. Grief, talent and ethical dilemmas
CW: death; brief mention of disordered eating What happens when someone dies? How do you talk to someone who's lost a parent? What's wrong with the word 'talent'? Do you take on work that makes you uncomfortable? Why are we so scared of Fr…
- 79. The unedit: my 2017 nervous breakdown
The start of an unedited series of podcasts. TW: mental illness Hattie shares the story of her 2017 nervous breakdown and reads a blog she wrote about it back in August. She also answers questions about breakdowns and whether she worries a…
- 78. Matthew Barley on psychosis and healing through ayahuasca
When cellist Matthew Barley was 16 he tried to take his own life following a drug-induced psychotic episode. He then went on to channel everything into music until in 2019 the trauma of the event resurfaced. We speak to Matthew about his e…
- 77. London Podcast Festival with Ayanna Witter-Johnson
This was a big one for Things Musicians Don't Talk About: our first live show !!!! We are so grateful to the London Podcast Festival for inviting us to take the stage with the exceptional Ayanna Witter-Johnson. Hattie and Becca talked a li…
- 76. Laure Chan: bridging cultures and breaking norms
We're back with our first interview after the summer! The brilliant Laure Chan speaks with Hattie and Becca about her cross-cultural, genre-bending creative endeavours and her journey to musical authenticity. How did Laure get into composi…
- 75. Blog Special | What if I continue putting on weight forever?
Trigger warning: eating disorders, weight (no specific numbers) A different format of episode this week! Becca reads out her latest blog on her body, her identity and her fears about the possibility of a life of ‘sizing-up’. She answers so…
- 74. Returning to places of trauma
Reflecting on recent trips back to our former music schools and colleges, we chat about the complex emotions that arise when revisiting places of past trauma. We discuss the challenges of addressing mental health in educational settings, w…
- 73. Ruth Philips: non-violence and the art of rest
When cellist Ruth Philips was 29 and studying in America, she left her room as she wanted it to be found after her death. So certain was she that the performance approaching her would be the end of her life. Now, Ruth is sought after for h…
- 72. Q&A: TMDTA origins, music schools & workplace politics
We thought we'd celebrate hitting 3,000 Instagram followers as some sort of milestone in this crazy journey to cultivate much-needed honesty in the music industry! Every follower, every listener we connect with feels like a little headway…
- 71. Chloé van Soeterstède: conducting through pregnancy & motherhood
In this episode of Things Musicians Don't Talk About, Becca sits down with Chloé van Soeterstède in her dressing room at the Royal College of Music. Chloé shares her personal experiences of working as a musician alongside pregnancy and the…
- 70. Queerness and power abuse in classical music: Tár & Maestro
Another chatty episode for you lovely lot! This was recorded for our last Voices radio slot in February 2023. Hattie and Becca chat about queerness in classical music, exploring our opinions on the films Tár and Maestro , and how we feel p…
- 69. Zygmund de Somogyi: burnout, belonging, and community in composition
This week we come to you (unintentionally) from the Royal Opera House! We speak with composer, theatre-maker, and journalist Zygmund de Somogyi about growing up with Autism Spectrum Disorder, not fitting in to the classical music world, di…
- 68. Callas, fatphobia and surviving sexual assault
TW: sexual assault we do discuss an experience of sexual assault/harassment about halfway through the episode so feel free to skip through / give this one a miss We recorded this episode as part of our Voices Radio residency after the hazy…
- 67. James Partridge: childhood nostalgia
A very Happy New Year from us at TMDTA! To kick off 2024, we have an episode recorded waaaaay back last year with the joyous James Partridge. We speak to him about his very unique career, bringing 'primary school bangers' to the masses and…
- 66. Jess Hands: when music soothes
On our Voices Radio slot this month, Becca interviewed DJ Jess Hands about her experiences with mental illness and how making music has been a healing distraction from her struggles. We hear her honest account of what it's like to go throu…
- 65. Simon Höfele: breaking the norm
Welcome back! This week we speak with astounding trumpet soloist, Simon Höfele, taking a peek behind the scenes of his stunning international career to discuss the reality of it all. We chat about Simon's fortunate journey to becoming a so…
- 64. Gavin Higgins: Tourettes, OCD and surviving opera
Composer Gavin Higgins found that music was the only thing calmed his severe facial tics as a young kid. After an assessment at the Maudsley Hospital, Gavin was diagnosed with Tourettes and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. He was put on Proz…
- *Patreon Preview* Spooky Scary Feedback
It's our first sneaky peaky Patreon preview! Welcome through this little creaky door in the paywall to hear 5 minutes of exclusive content that we recorded last Halloween! In this episode, Hattie, Katy and Becca scare the living daylights…
- 63. Koshka Duff - Abolishing the Police
This episode is dedicated to Koshka’s wonderful piano teacher, Niel Immelman, who sadly passed away since it was recorded - and who made it all possible. TW// sexual violence and assault, physical assault, police brutality Becca first came…