What Do You Mean By That?
Society & Culture
About
Join multi-ethnic co-hosts Sara + Misasha - two wickedly smart, heart-led, long-distance best friends - as they help folks talk smarter and think deeper about the world around us. Whether it's about science, history, current events, social justice, or more, their community consists of people who want to be better humans, to benefit all of us. We won't let the fire hose of information overwhelm us. Whether you're a seasoned expert or new to the work, you'll find yourself listening, learning, and feeling inspired to do something new after each episode.If you can never get enough knowledge but also don't want to feel overwhelmed… Congratulations, you've found your people. Follow to join a community of curious folks who constantly wonder: what do you mean by that?
Episodes
- 25: From Almost High School Dropout to Stanford Law to Fighting for All Of Us: Using Legal Skills as a Force for Good, with Luke Liss
Luke Liss, Pro Bono Partner at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, shares his path from high school dropout to Stanford Law, highlighting the importance of mentorship, perseverance, and community involvement in fighting for justice.
- 24: Are White Men Smarter Than Everyone Else? With Steve Phillips
Steve Phillips joins "What Do You Mean By That?" to discuss why White men hold a disproportionate share of leadership positions, despite making up 29% of the population. He explores two potential explanations: inherent differences or syste…
- 23: 7 Years, One Big Rebrand, and Everything We Know Now: An Honest Anniversary Conversation
In this anniversary episode, the hosts discuss seven years of their podcast, formerly Dear White Women. They reflect on the decision to rebrand to What Do You Mean By That? and share their thoughts on the podcast's future, including potent…
- 22: Where Do You Belong? Multi-Ethnic Identity and Citizenship with Megumi Nishikura
Megumi Nishikura, a documentary filmmaker, joins the podcast to discuss multi-ethnic identity and citizenship, particularly for those with Japanese and White heritage. The conversation delves into feelings of belonging, the realities of du…
- 21: Fixing Fairness: The Future of DEI, Workplace Equity, and Organizational Change, with Lily Zheng
This episode features Lily Zheng discussing how common diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) strategies can unintentionally worsen workplace issues, drawing parallels to the historical Cobra Effect. Zheng introduces the FAIR framework—fai…
- 20: Where the Girls Were, with Kate Schatz
Today's conversation is one about history — but also about now. About 1968 and about 2026. About who gets control over their own body — and who never truly has. About the quiet, complicated ways parents try to protect their children, and t…
- 19: The Conversations We All Need to Have About Black History Month
Here we are, February, which is also Black History Month (and for the record: Black history is American history. We'll say this all day, every day, until everyone gets on this train.). It's not lost on us that this is the shortest month of…
- 18: What to do about (Secret Pol)ICE In Our Communities
*** We recorded this episode before ICE murdered Alex Pretti, a 37 year old ICU nurse who was attempting to help a woman up who had been pushed to the ground by ICE agents in Minneapolis on the morning of January 24, 2026. Despite the admi…
- 17: New Year of Actions + Why Getting Names Right Matters
If you're a repeat listener to the podcast over the last almost SEVEN years, you know that sometimes, we've done seasonal arcs in which we focus on a topic or theme for the season. (And if you've just found us - hello!) This year, we're do…
- 16: Leaving 2025 Behind: What We're Letting Go Of and What We're Taking Into 2026
We've had rough years before—but 2025? This one hit different. If you've been listening to us for the last six years, you know we're no strangers to hard conversations. DEI. Wellbeing. Systems that don't work the way they should. And this…
- 15: Raising Boys in an Age of Backlash: Soraya Chemaly on Power, Gender, and What Comes Next
In today's episode, we sit down with feminist author and activist Soraya Chemaly for a conversation that feels both urgent and deeply grounding. Soraya's new book, All We Want Is Everything, traces how male supremacy shows up everywhere—ou…
- 14: Becoming Smarter News Consumers, with the founder of Ad Fontes Media, Home of the Media Bias Chart
In an age where AI can fake a video, social platforms reward outrage, and even the word 'misinformation' means different things to different people, one question rises above the noise: how do we know what to trust? Today, we're joined by V…
- 13: How to Have Difficult Conversations, featuring Dr. Bill Doherty, Co-founder of Braver Angels
Are you a little worried about holiday conversations with your relatives and family members in this increasingly polarized political climate? You're not alone. Welcome to something new – a live discussion with our guest, Dr. Bill Doherty,…
- 12: Uncompete: The Case for Redefining Success, Together - with Ruchika Malhotra
When we have repeat guests back on the pod, it's because we love them, their work, and the message that they're not only sending out into the world but embodying themselves. And we think all of this can be said a million times over for tod…
- 11: What We Meant By That - The Debrief on Elie Mystal's Brilliance
Welcome to our first Debrief episode, where we reflect and digest what our brilliant guests shared in a prior conversation. We were blown away by the sheer brilliance and clarity in our last episode with former litigator and political comm…
- 10: Elie Mystal on Bad Laws, Big Truths, and How to Change the System
This episode is a must-listen for anyone who's ever felt like legal talk is impossible to understand (👋 Sara included!). We're joined by Elie Mystal , brilliant legal mind, powerful truth-teller, and New York Times bestselling author of A…
- 09: The Devil Emails At Midnight, With Mita Mallick
Whether you've ever been a boss or have ever had a boss, you know how much those singular individuals can shape the workplace. According to studies, a good manager can increase employee engagement by as much as 70%. And, according to a sur…
- 08: How to Be a Better Human: What WE Really Think
We had a very insightful superfan make a brilliant suggestion that we're acting on, starting with this episode. David Gaines, author of Radical Business, CEO of La Terza Coffee, and kind human being, sent in a message cheering us on for th…
- 07: How to Rest without Feeling Guilty
In our last episode of our series on how to be a better human, we're talking about rest. Specifically, what do we mean by rest, and why is it so important? How do we grapple with its significance in our individual and collective lives, and…
- 06: How To Be a Better Democrat, with Megan Imperial
Maybe these are some questions you've asked yourself, as we've moved from the election of 2024 to the present: Where the heck are the Democrats? What's happening with the dysfunctional American two-party political system, and if we don't s…
- 05: How We Can Build Trust In Times of Division, with Jan-Emmanuel de Neve
It's not controversial to say that we are living in times of deep division, where there are so many forces keeping us apart, politics being a big part of that. But did you know that there's a link between how satisfied you think you are wi…
- 04: How to improve your critical thinking skills, with Colin Seale
Depending on who you are and where you get your news from, you may be seeing a completely separate version of the news from your neighbor down the street, your aunt in another state, or your coworker who only gets his news from a specific…
- 03: How to be Kinder (not Nicer), with Dr. Kelli Harding
This is Sara, and I remember the time 20 years ago when I got schooled by a psychoanalyst. It must have been the fall, because I was supremely agitated that I was having to write, design, and send holiday cards out to a huge list of people…
- 02: How to Become a Radical Listener, with Robert Biswas-Diener and Christian van Nieuwerburgh
One of the ways that we believe we can be better humans is to actually listen to each other - not just nod along when we watch people's mouths move, or wait impatiently for someone to finish their thought before we can jump in and say what…
- 01: Welcome to What Do You Mean By That?
We have a big announcement! We have rebranded and are now known as the podcast, What Do You Mean By That? If you've listened to our former show, Dear White Women, you know that What do you mean by that? has been one of our favorite questio…
- 272: What Do We Mean by Therapy, and Culturally Responsive Care? with The Yellow Chair Collective
Raise your hand if you've been to therapy before. My first time, if I'm remembering correctly, is a few months after my Dad died when I was in my mid-twenties, and my college roommate set me up with her aunt, who was a renowned psychoanaly…
- 271: Having Unforgettable Presence, with Lorraine K. Lee
Picture a successful business leader, and experience says you're most likely to be picturing a white male right now. Similarly, the realm of business books has been dominated by white males for so, so long - which is why we find it incredi…
- 270: Six Years Later, And (No Surprise Here) We're Still Talking
By the time a human is six years old, they're usually in formal schooling with wide-open minds, ready to learn. You're learning that you can't bring peanut butter in because some classmates might be allergic to peanuts (which shows you how…
- 269: In Support of the Rule of Law, with Debbie Hines
Even if you're not a lawyer, the challenge that this administration is mounting to the rule of law affects you, too. When the president challenges the judiciary, when we as a country go after lawyers simply for doing their actual jobs, it…
- 268: How We Can Fight Book Bans in 2025
Between the time when we recorded this episode and this introduction, so many of our learning institutions, including the Department of Education and the Institute of Museum and Library Services, are being systematically or haphazardly dis…
- 267: Don't Let Yourself Be Gaslit By Our Two Presidents
Gaslighting. Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse that involves manipulating someone into questioning their sanity, memories, or perception of reality. Sounds horrible right? An example of this: a person or institution may say that…
- 266: In Support of Transgender Lives with Schuyler Bailar
In the United States, there are an estimated 1.6 million people who identify as transgender, which is about 0.6% of the population ages 13 and older. It's about the equivalent of the population of Phoenix, Arizona; it's just about how many…
- 265: The United States Should Focus On Equality, with Steve Phillips
We need to be honest about our nation's history - that we've always been a divided nation - if we're going to be able to strengthen and maximize the full power and potential of our nation. What's that nation we want to move towards? One de…
- 264: Trump 2.0: What This Might Mean For Women, Parents, And All of Us
Since every day since Trump's second inauguration has likely brought a fresh onslaught of possibilities that range from the incomprehensibly absurd to those that actively promote authoritarianism and slash away at our fundamental rights, i…
- 263: How Are You Trump-Proofing Your Life?
We've arrived in 2025, and assuming President-Elect Trump is inaugurated, this means he will be the first president to take office convicted of felony crimes. And since we know that an organization's tone is often set by its leadership, we…
- 262: Farewell 2024, Hello 2025
Tomorrow, we'll be wishing our loved ones "akemashite omedetou gozaimasu" - or, Happy New Year, in Japanese. If you're a long-time listener, you know that DEI work (or whatever we'll be calling it going forward) is personal to us. We're bo…
- 261: How I Stopped Being a Model Minority, with Anne Anlin Cheng
Today's episode seems to be addressing this question: does politics show up in our everyday lives? Maybe even in our most intimate relationships? And while a lot of folks may be saying politics doesn't impact me, I don't do politics… we th…
- 260: The Anti-Ableist Manifesto, with Tiffany Yu
There are SO many insightful conversations and incredible stories we've shared on this show, and this one was yet another example of one where we went in thinking one thing, and came out thinking another. Because we'll be talking with an i…
- 259: Making and Maintaining Friendships, with Dr. Marisa G. Franco
We've had a lot of focus on this show leading into Election 2024 about the state of the country and the deep divides that we're seeing in society. We're grateful to and for everyone who worked to ensure that democracy worked in early Novem…
- 258: (Why We) Vote For All Of Us
This is a short episode – about why we vote, and why we hold onto hope today and going forward – and it may be the episode that you need to hear today. If you've already voted: THANK YOU. If you haven't voted yet, pause this and go do that…
- 257: Abortion is About Women's Health and Human Rights. Vote Like It.
When we first recorded this episode, we were at the end of the Trump presidency, when we still had a legal right to abortion in this country. Roe v. Wade was still the law of the land, and women had access to safe abortion options in many…
- 256: Trump is Still a Liar, Including Project 2025: Why Harris is the Only Choice
Trump lies repeatedly. He's shown us who he is. He'll continue to try distancing himself from Project 2025 because it's come under fire in public and he's very image-savvy, but be very, very clear - this is his policy agenda outline. Liste…
- 255: Representation Matters, with Mona Das
You know how we both feel about the phrase "oh, stop being so political" for the simple reason that politics IS personal. Political choices impact most things you do on the daily, and often involve the things you care about the most for yo…
- 254: How to Get Involved in the 2024 Election, with Sam Chavez
Trump lies repeatedly. He's shown us who he is. He'll continue to try distancing himself from Project 2025 because it's come under fire in public and he's very image-savvy, but be very, very clear - this is his policy agenda outline. Liste…
- 253: The Resilience Myth, with Soraya Chemaly
What comes to your mind when you picture someone who's resilient? Usually, we hear that it's one person who's faced a setback, and they remain hopeful and willing to work through the challenges to return to some sort of life they had befor…
- 252: Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering
Most of us say we'd speak up and do the right thing - that we'd not conform to horrible societal standards. We hear that, for example, when people speak about what happened during World War II in Europe. Would you have been part of the Res…
- 251: Susie Clark: The Bravest Girl You've Ever Seen (And Probably Never Knew About)
We're going to be sharing this episode today, which if you're listening in real-time, is shortly after President Biden stepped aside, not accepting the Democratic nomination and instead, getting behind his VP Kamala Harris - our country's…
- 250: Practical Optimism with Dr. Sue Varma
So we've spoken inspirationally and aspirationally about wellbeing, the power of the pause, about spirituality. But what if my brain is still going, but I can't wrap my head around this all – I need some more structure, some more tools, so…
- 249: Healing Our Way Home
In the five-plus years of the podcast, I'd say that we have spent a LOT of time on various "hot button" issues - I mean, we live quite squarely in the ones that surround race and identity, wouldn't you say? - but one of the facets of ident…
- 248: For All Womxn, The Rested Rebel with Kibi Anderson
This one goes out to all the busy women in our community. Whether you're a Type-A, a Recovering Type-A, a paid working mom or a working mom in the home - we hear it over and over again: we women are feeling stretched super thin, exhausted,…