Cross & Gavel Podcast
Religion & Spirituality
About
A production of Christian Legal Society — focusing on the interaction between law, religion, and public policy, with an emphasis on building-up Christian students and attorneys to intelligently engage in public life and better love their neighbors.
Episodes
- 212. Why Civility? — David A. Grenardo
The legal profession tends to breed a type of disposition more akin to something in Homer than The Wonder Years . A rooted posture towards adversity rather than compromise or even common ground. Much of this is taught in law school, even i…
- 211. Why Religious Freedom Matters — Allen D. Hertzke
Today, I discuss a book that goes to the heart of why religious freedom matters and how protecting its exercise confounds the forces of disintegration and violence. My guest is Allen D. Hertzke, whose book Why Religious Freedom Matters is…
- 210. Mitigating AI Bias — Sonia Gipson Rankin
In the last few years, Artificial Intelligence (AI) has become a household name, slowly creeping into the corners of every technological device we've all grown to depend on. But what happens if the underlying training data and the people t…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: The Law, the Migrant, & the Family of God — Dr. Maria Doerfler (Witte Lectures)
The John Witte, Jr. Lecture Series on Christianity & Law is back! A new venture from Christian Legal Society aimed at advancing the conversation surrounding the integration of Christianity & law. In our third lecture inspired by the Düssel…
- 209. Political Theology From Below — Vincent W. Lloyd
Many who discuss political theology run to the likes of Augustine or Aquinas to explain the ways their minds express the world and treat its people. And while those thinkers are profound and helpful, the idea of political theology carries…
- 208. The Sins of Mass Incarceration — Jeff Baker
One of the most difficult issues to solve is the careful balance of criminal reform with the punitive aims of state power. While most of us don't want to needless lock up our neighbors, we are also in favor of the systematic creation of sp…
- 207. A Sermon on the Law — Jeff Baker
One of the things that we at Christian Legal Society constantly implore law students to do is to think about what sort of lawyer they want to be. Yes, we want them to be successful, but more than that, we want them to bear witness to the g…
- 206. Kushinda Court — Judge Gerald Parker
Our first episode of the year takes us to Dayton, Ohio, where under the auspices of the Montgomery County Common Pleas Court sits the Kushinda Court ("the Court") under the vision and direction of the Honorable Gerald Parker. This Court is…
- 205. Beauty & the Law — Mark Fowler
One of the chief affections we as humans should pursue along with truth and virtue is the appreciation for beauty. As lawyers, we are uniquely predisposed to ignoring this element of human life for want of loveliness in our work and in the…
- 204. Christian Natural Law & Religious Freedom — Alex Deagon
The question of natural law continues to come up in the context of Christian jurisprudence, and for good reason. It is a topic both fascinating and formative, touching on topics as vast as the origins of the American constitutional experim…
- 203. Sin Nombre — Ted Oswald & Anna Colby
All year, we've witnessed in America a law enforcement presence dedicated to a single mission: mass deportation. While initially this mission was centered on the eradication of dangerous criminals, those now detained with no criminal histo…
- 202. How Do You Solve a Problem Like Martinez? — Benjamin A. Fleshman
In 2010, the Supreme Court issued a consequential opinion that stifled the freedom of association across countless campuses when it came to religious groups. In CLS v. Martinez, in a divided 5-4 opinion , the Court opened the way for unive…
- 201. Cosmic Politics — Jim DeMint
One of the cliches of culture is that we are polarized. Perhaps because it has become so commonplace to speak of our divisions, our divisions have become normalized. In my conversation today, I speak with someone who is very much at the he…
- 200. The Prodigal Host Returns — Mike Schutt
Today marks the 200th episode of the Cross & Gavel. As part of that celebration, I have brought back the original host to have an unscripted and (mostly) unedited conversation about all things ministry, movies, books, and more. Mike Schutt…
- 199. Unshaken Allegiance — Patrick Parkinson
My guest today comes from outside the United States and has been studying the religious freedom landscape in Australia for quite some time. In his new book— Unshaken Allegiance: Living Wisely as Christians with Diminishing Religious Freedo…
- 198. How Religious Actors Help Shape the AI Dialogue — Whittney Barth
My guest this week is Whittney Barth, an associate teaching professor at Emory Law School and the Executive Director and Charlotte McDaniel Scholar at the Center for the Study of Law and Religion. Our conversation centers around her new pi…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: The Wages of Cinema — Crystal L. Downing
In this special film festival edition, I talk with Crystal L. Downing about the medium of film and how to approach the viewing experience. At the heart of our discussion is her new book, The Wages of Cinema: A Christian Aesthetic of Film i…
- 197. Kierkegaardian Ethics & the Rule of Law — Joshua Neoh
One of the major challenges in religious freedom law is figuring out to what extent a claim of accommodation is justified given the low barrier of entry for claims of sincerity. While American law tries to prevent a man from becoming what…
- 196. Pursuing Justice in a Violent Land (Part II) — Kurt Ver Beek & Emily Cole
In Part I , Ross Halperin and I laid a foundation for the work of ASJ in Honduras under the leadership of Kurt Ver Beek and others. In this episode, I am joined by Kurt himself to discuss his exchange of letters between Nicholas Wolterstor…
- 195. Pursuing Justice in a Violent Land (Part I) — Ross Halperin
Today, we start a two-part journey into the heart of Honduran society. Our focus will be on one man, Kurt Ver Beek, and the organization he co-founded, Association for a More Just Society (ASJ) . Kurt is a professor of Sociology (Emeritus)…
- 194. Building an AI-Savvy Workforce — Kevin Frazier
My conversation today is on the necessity of adaptive leadership in the coming wave that is artificial intelligence. My guest is Kevin Frazier, the newly minted AI Innovation and Law Fellow at The University of Texas School of Law. His art…
- 193. Ten Commandments in Classrooms — Mark David Hall & Andrea Picciotti-Bayer
On June 20, 2025, the Fifth Circuit returned its decision in the Louisiana Ten Commandments case ( here ), upholding the District Courts order blocking the law from going into effect. This was followed by a petition on June 26 for a rehear…
- 192. The Death & New Life of Law and Religion — Marc O. DeGirolami
This week, we have a special episode. One near and dear to my heart and my own intellectual history. It is a conversation with professor Marc O. DeGirolami on his piece published in the Oxford Journal of Law & Religion covering the life an…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: Integrating Faith in Legal Practice — Boatman Ricci (Foundations Series)
The Foundations Series is a new web content venture from CLS aimed at helping Christian law students transition from 3Ls to first-year associates. It features Christian practitioners skilled in the integration of faith and practice, offeri…
- 191. Religious Law Schools, Rankings, & Bias — Michael Conklin
With the release of U.S. News Rankings last month , renewed interest has surfaced regarding the parameters and impact of placement. Where law schools fall speaks to not only the quality of their percieved education, but also success regard…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: Relational Wisdom for Lawyers — Ken Sande (Wellness Program)
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote, "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how thi…
- 190. Play In The Joints — Falco Anthony Muscante II
For most of the second half of 20th century, the Supreme Court has wrestled with finding a balance between the Free Exercise of religion and the Establishment Clause, offering several tests to test the limits of permissible accommodation w…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: Integrating Faith in Legal Practice — Joe Ruta & Stephen Lyon (Foundations Series)
The Foundations Series is a new web content venture from CLS aimed at helping Christian law students transition from 3Ls to first-year associates. It features Christian practitioners skilled in the integration of faith and practice, offeri…
- 189. Natural Law and Its Discontents — Josiah Wolfe
The recent publication of Melissa Moschella's Ethics, Politics, and Natural Law has renewed interest in the application of natural law to human flourishing. A topic that has undergone a resurgence among not only Catholics, but also Protest…
- 188. Called to Freedom — Brad Littlejohn
A popular refrain from both the left and the right in American society is one concerning the importance of liberty for the flourishment of their respective communities. But what does true freedom look like and, perhaps more importantly, ho…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: What Hath Christ To Do With Rights? — Kristina Arriaga (Witte Lectures)
The John Witte, Jr. Lecture Series on Christianity & Law is back! A new venture from Christian Legal Society aimed at advancing the conversation surrounding the integration of Christianity & law. In our second lecture inspired by the Ameri…
- 187. Refugees, Migrants, & the Church — Matthew Soerens
Today, a sharply divided Supreme Court reinstated a lower-court order for the Trump administration to release frozen foreign aid. In this episode, I talk with Matthew Soerens of World Relief about some of the recent executive orders and ho…
- 186. Title VII & Religious Accommodation — Blaine L. Hutchison & Bruce Cameron
Today we delve into the world of Title VII by looking at the pending case in Carter v. Transp. Workers Union of Am. Local 556. The focus of our discussion will be on the paper from Blaine Hutchison in the Texas Review of Law & Politics, en…
- 185. Christianity & the "Liberal" Income Tax — Andrew Hayashi
Many people hate the tax system. It is perhaps the one universal solvent that can bring people together. In this episode, I discuss the income tax system and whether it can actually produce a more equitable society. My guest is Andrew Haya…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: Living Well — Starr Tomczak (Wellness Program)
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote , "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how th…
- 184. Calling Is More Than Your Job — Steven Zhou
Many people use the language of "calling" without considering the scope and duration of that word and what it really means to align one's gifts with community need. In this episode, I get to explore some of these issues with Steven Zhou, a…
- 183. Faith Through Lawyering — Randy Lee
Happy New Years! To start off the year right, I wanted to go back to basics: faith through lawyering. My guest is Randy Lee, a veteran in the field, writing on the topic of the Christian lawyer for over three decades. His insights can be f…
- 182. Artificial Intelligence & Access to Justice — Kevin T. Frazier
In the last few weeks, there has been two excellent podcasts that showcase the depths of what legal learning could provide. In the first, a conversation ( here ) about the history and framework for the federal constitution, taught largely…
- 181. The Diary of a Black Christian Female Law Student — Jeanelle Angus & Lakuita Bittle
In this special end of the semester episode, I get to talk to two amazing black Christian women about their experiences in law school. And not just in law school, but also the entire process surrounding getting in and getting out. The book…
- 180. The Kids Aren't Alright — Amy Levin
This week, we continue our conversation on mental health and the various reasons why law students don't get the help they need. My guest is Amy Levin—someone who not only understands the legal profession but has also spent much time studyi…
- SPECIAL EPISODE: Spiritual Practices for Soul Care — Dr. Barbara L. Peacock (Wellness Program)
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote , "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how th…
- 179. The Origins of Church Autonomy — Lael Weinberger
This week, I talk to Lael Weinberger about the doctrine of church autonomy—what it is and, more importantly, where it came from. Lael has written an excellent paper on the origins of church autonomy ( here ), as well as put to practice his…
- 178. Religious Freedom Without the Rule of Law — Andrea Pin
This week, we are joined once more by our friend and comparative constitutional law expert from the mean streets of Padua—Andrea Pin. We discuss his brand new book from Brill entitled, Religious Freedom without the Rule of Law: The Constit…
- 177. Law & the Spirit of Jubilee — Christopher D. Hampson
This week, we have a special guest from the University of Florida Levin College of Law—Christopher D. Hampson. Our topic is a good one: the cancellation of debt. To that end, Chris and I discussed his forthcoming article tentatively entitl…
- 176. The Compass of Character — Nicholas Aroney
This week, we have a special episode with a return guest of mine—Nicholas Aroney, who recently delivered the Sir John Graham Lecture in New Zealand. You can listen to that here or read it here . Nick and I talk about this lecture, entitled…
- 175. Habits of a Peacemaker — Steven T. Collis
In this episode, I talk about a new book that models the ten habits that any peacemaker should adopt. The author is Steven T. Collis and the book is Ten Habits of a Peacemake r. For those wondering how this book compares to the work of Ken…
- 174. How Law Lost Its Way — Adam J. MacLeod
This week, I discuss a recent piece ( here ) in Touchstone Magazine with Adam J. MacLeod entitled "How Law Lost Its Way: An Abandoned Ruling Principle & How to Get It Back." In it, Adam discusses the role of practical reason in the develop…
- 173. The Renewal of Labor Law — Alvin Velazquez
This week, we enter the world of labor law theory — more specifically, the question of faith as it relates to the rights of workers. In this episode, I am joined by law professor Alvin Velazquez to talk about a paper ( here ) he presented…
- 172. Person-Centered Contract Theory — C. Scott Pryor
This week, we talk about an all too familiar topic for law students: contracts. In this episode, I am joined by law professor C. Scott Pryor to talk about his soon to be published paper in the Notre Dame Journal of Law, Ethics, and Public…
- 171. When A Christian Attorney Walks Into The Bar — Dr. Jeffery Ventrella
This week, we begin a new chapter in the life of the Cross & Gavel podcast, with a renewed effort to explore the interaction of Christianity and law. This new focus will be exclusive to the work being done by practitioners and academics in…